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If you haven't read the history yet, STOP RIGHT HERE and go read it!! This discussion may contain spoilers. At the end of the history, you'll find a link back to this thread.
krakenten •Director of Public Morals member is offline
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #2 on Jun 2, 2007, 10:58am »
This short piece has Lovecraft at his best. Abdul Alhazred was a play name one of HP's uncles called him by-seems Lovecraft was often siezed by an Arabic mood in his childhood. The use of scholarly details and style, the slow and serious pace, put this on Wikipedia, and most people would buy it, no questions asked. In our time, the internet has helped bring many obscure sources to light, a zip file being quicker than a trip overseas, and the listing of references on databases being a significant shortcut for researchers. I think the Voynich Manuscript may have influenced HPL's thoughts on the shunned tomes. These are very rare volumes, but people keep finding them in used book shops with alarming frequency...... Like Gideon bibles, placed by dedicated members of an organization dedicated to spreading their views....... Cthulhu f'taghn!
Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #3 on Jun 2, 2007, 2:35pm »
Hello all!
I like Lovecraft's insertion of historical personages, such as Pope Gregory IX, Dr. Dee, and the mere hint at historical events like "a certain Salem man's library". I believe such links with real persons and events helps add to the "suspension of disbelief" so important to good speculative fiction. It's a valuable technique for any writer of the fantastic.
krakenten •Director of Public Morals member is offline
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #4 on Jun 2, 2007, 8:28pm »
Perhaps Lovecraft's greatest invention was his use of facts and ''facts'', to mystify and lend authenticity to his work. Getting other pulp writers to use his inventions was a stroke of genius! Readers were apt to run across references and even whole stories in various venues until the Yog-Sothothery seemed very real, indeed. HPL was a skilled amateur astronomer with articles published in scientific journals, and he was a very able mathmetician as well. As an autodidact without even a High School diploma, he still managed to deeply penetrate such bodies of study as interested him quite handily.
Hodgson •Thing That Should Not Be member is offline
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #5 on Jun 3, 2007, 4:42am »
Borges, a writer who like Lovecraft is not to everyone's taste, also made efficient use of facts and "facts".
What is interesting about Lovecraft's use of facts and pseudo-facts is, to me, not so much how many he used but the judicious use he made of them. He is not habitually citing reality or making a show of learning but attempting specific effects by specific means. And as realism was in the air (in the 20s and 30s), he appealed to the reader's sense of factuality--not because he worshipped at that particular altar but because the appeal was useful.
From what I can judge, his knowledge of science appears to have been relatively modest. His strength lay in sensibility, the creative powers of recombination and description. Facts and "facts" were among the elective tools of his imagination.
I am uncertain that he published in scientific journals. He did publish astronomical articles in newspapers.
Jesus Prime •Energy Conservation Czar member is offline
Chicken! Fight like a robot!
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #6 on Jun 4, 2007, 1:39pm »
Quote:
From what I can judge, his knowledge of science appears to have been relatively modest. His strength lay in sensibility, the creative powers of recombination and description. Facts and "facts" were among the elective tools of his imagination.
Compare with "Nyarlathotep" and the references to Tesla. Nothing about what he did, or what his findings involved, just his 'shocking experiments'. And that's all he needed to say to invoke all of the reader's own personal knowledge of the subject.
krakenten •Director of Public Morals member is offline
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #7 on Aug 22, 2007, 8:11am »
And not just knowledge, but feelings. Tesla, who was indeed a great scientist, did his best work in his youth(as often happens) and found himself at a loss for a topper. He used his reputation, based on solid work, to issue dark hints about his next big breakthrough. Which was little but moonshine. His 'death ray' seems to have been either a delusion or a fraud(remember cold fusion?), and many of his later researches went down blind alleys. Still he was a powerful scientist-and his obscure hints of things to come made him seem almost a wizard. He was brilliant, he was fun, he lived in a hotel-what's not to like?
krakenten •Director of Public Morals member is offline
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #9 on Aug 22, 2007, 5:59pm »
Tesla often appeared on his balcony to announce "breakthroughs" to the crowd below. His idea of broadcast power was actually tried in one town, but stories say the violent discharge from the coil electrocuted birds, made a lot of noise and unwanted light, as well as causing shocks when people touched anything grounded. The difficulty of charging for power was also a drawback. On the TV show, 'The Avengers', Steed and Mrs. Peel confront an electromagnetic menace in, 'The Positive Negative Man'-right out of Tesla-and 'Fighting Devil Dogs of the Air', a neat old serial, The Lightning is a fiend with an arsenal of electric weapons.
Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #10 on May 20, 2008, 6:21am »
Honestly, in reading this, I was kind of surprised how un-Lovecraft it seemed. I am not saying that I did not enjoy it, but the utter absence of his own stylings in this write led me to wonder about it. The names (one an obvious reworking of the name Eleaser of Worms), and the historics and geographica were an interesting read. I think the distraction in his lack of language and near unimaginative (for Lovecraft leastwise, not to mention that he rarely laid all his cards out on the table like that in any story I recall reading of his)-- Enjoyed, but strangely skeptical about it. Smacks more of an August Derleth write. 5/10 in my book for this one, especially in comparison to Lovecraft's other works.
Joined: Feb 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,427 Location: Southern California
Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #11 on May 20, 2008, 9:29am »
true, it's not one of his more inspired stories, but we picked it for its cultural/academic significance. so many people are familiar with the fabled necronomicon without knowing where the legend started.
A monkey riding a dog is probably the awesomest thing that could ever happen.
krakenten •Director of Public Morals member is offline
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Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #12 on May 20, 2008, 10:01am »
Wormius was an actual Danish physician, however, he lived much later than the time stated in the story.
Probably an error by Lovecraft, but perhaps the name was iresistable?
Some authors posit there were two Olaus Wormius-actual name, before Latinization, Ole Wurm, which is possible.
The first Wormius is a known direct ancestor of Stinking Olaf Wurm, a Scandinavian rat-fink and pirate who matched wits with Hemlock Stones, the great defective, but I digress.
I have to remember Eleazar of Worms, could come in handy.
The Diet of Worms was an ancient weight-loss regime, which made the idea of regime change positively attractive!
Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #13 on May 22, 2008, 8:24am »
See now JJ, I may have taken this as one of his letter excerpts as well, and through the familiarity and as it was not being written for publication-- that seems plausible. It is just that I happen to know that there are several fraudulent and/or mis-marked writings attribute to him (some of which were merely his edits and others which were actually written by August Derleth. The Necrominomicon actually first appeared in 1978 when a less than scrupled publisher opted to not only put the book out as real, but also ripped H.P. off badly.) Trust me, I adored his writings for a very long time and it is easy for me to see when it is not his work (or at least not something he intended for publication).
Ah, see now K. I had it down as the sorceror from Worms (well, he wrote a book on the subject leastwise) Wormius does sound familiar now that you mention it, but I do not recall from where. Thanks.
See now JJ, I may have taken this as one of his letter excerpts as well, and through the familiarity and as it was not being written for publication-- that seems plausible. It is just that I happen to know that there are several fraudulent and/or mis-marked writings attribute to him (some of which were merely his edits and others which were actually written by August Derleth. The Necrominomicon actually first appeared in 1978 when a less than scrupled publisher opted to not only put the book out as real, but also ripped H.P. off badly.) Trust me, I adored his writings for a very long time and it is easy for me to see when it is not his work (or at least not something he intended for publication).
i believe we copied the text from wikisource, which the editorial staff considers to be of generally trustworthy curatorship. you might like to examine the document's history page. of course, if we have erroneously offered a text in the name of hp lovecraft, we'd have to accept responsibility and publish a retraction. that would be kind of interesting, just for the experience. i've kinda always wanted to publish a retraction for something. anyway, this is the first suggestion we've received that this text might not be genuine... if anyone would like to follow up on that, i'll honor it accordingly.
i am of the opinion that august derleth did both service and disservice to lovecraft's legacy. he is to be praised for growing the audience of hpl's work, but his treatment of the mythos was such a miss [hand whiffs past left ear] that he is at the root of much of today's mistreatment, all the expanded universe stuff that has nothing to do with the core kernel of lovecraft's ideas.
as for the necronomicon existing in the sense that hpl's stories suggested, no, i don't take the fantasy that far. i haven't read any of the published necronomicons because i doubt i'll find anything that does justice to hpl canon as i think he conceived it. feel free to persuade me toward your favorite, though. i like pleasant surprises.
Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #15 on May 22, 2008, 3:49pm »
Naw, that wasn't my point in saying so, he was a omnibus letter writer and this could have very well been sent out in that form. Yes, Derleth certainly did as you mentioned, and I can pick out his own from Lovecraft's in the revisions that he did on those partial manuscripts (i.e "The Shuttered Room") Even if this was erroneous, I wouldn't hold it too keenly against you all. I suspected that even as I said (considering that I can tell that the writers here are fans of Lovecraft, in both their appreciation of his works as well as in some of the styles I noted in my readings of earlier issues) It has been a while since I read those revisions that Derleth did (as well as those that Lovecraft did for others-- "The Green Meadow" or "The Loved Dead") I have those, but they are specifically stated as revisions, not to mention a biography about him (with many of his letters inside) written/compiled by L. Sprague Decamp. I have moved on to other writers since, but inevitably go back reading him at some point and time that I want a good, reliable read. (or I am just in the mood) In case you hadn't noticed, I have been enjoying my time here-- reading mostly at this point. I think that you have a pretty solid core of writers/poets here at Fantastic Horror. It reminds me a bit of my own old zine, though the writers are not the same really. Sometimes, when I am feeling masochistic, I miss running the zine.
In short, don't take anything I say as slight JJ. I just know how these things get started, and how sometimes well meaning folk get drug into them. (Aside from the fact that I said I liked this, it just wasn't typical Lovecraft lore. From the language, to the fact that I think the only time H.P. ever shot a straight line was with his end of the write zingers. This was a straight shot, not his typical flair.
Have you ever read Robert E. Howards turns on the Cthulu Mythos? Not bad stuff, also not H.P.-- but enjoyable reads nonetheless.
Joined: Feb 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,427 Location: Southern California
Re: "History of the Necronomicon" by H.P. Lovecraf « Reply #16 on Jun 18, 2008, 12:26am »
i read howard's 'the black stone' in tales of the cthulhu mythos, and the narration of conan the barbarian (the movie) impressed me at an early age. but beyond that i haven't exposed myself to much of robert e howard. been meaning to..
also, here's a chewy nugget for necronomicon aficionados seeking the foundations of the legend.
anyway po, i'm not offended by anything you said. you gave me an opening to tout my (hypothetical) journalistic integrity, so i pounced on it. nehehe
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